Boy Jr. : From Screen to Stage
Photos: Malachi Roth-Cohen, @malasneeze
Boy Jr. wants to try everything. 26-year-old Erica Lubman’s one-woman-band has become a phenomenon on TikTok, creating colorful mashups from her bedroom in Rochester, NY: St. Vincent and Nine Inch Nails, Harry Styles and the Smiths, and, most recently, “It’s Corn” in the style of Glass Animals. For thirty seconds at a time, Lubman is a chameleon, slipping into different skins, creating something entirely new but entirely familiar to her 300,000 followers and counting.
Recently, Lubman has taken her talents cross-country, performing her body of original work interspersed with references to her most popular content. Lubman and I met at The Palace in South Philadelphia last month, a spacious house-turned-DIY-mansion, just moments before her set. In the green room, a space fitted with ornamental tapestries and couches dragged in from the curb, we talked about everything from college experiences to inspirations to the pressure of creating content for the entire world to access.
Lubman’s capabilities, however, are not limited to thirty second snippets. She comes ablaze onstage, donning red latex to match her vigor, performing with little but a backing track and her sibling on drums behind her. In those moments, Lubman incensed the crowd, all fitted in Malibu Barbie-themed outfits, inspiring stomping feet and swinging hips during a Marina Diamandis-esque styling of “Barbie Girl”.
When Lubman and I met over Zoom in the following weeks to talk about her time at The Palace, she was just how I remembered: bubbly but grounded, armed with an astounding awareness of her own space, and always ready with an answer. What followed proved to be an illuminating conversation about inspiration and where it comes from, and how Boy Jr. has built a cult following surrounding Lubman’s myriad musical talents.
So, last time that we spoke, we talked a lot about your background and your history, where you come from…
I’m from Rochester, NY; that is upstate, UPSTATE New York, like, closer to Canada than New York City…I was born into a musical family, both of my parents were music teachers, so I started learning with piano lessons and stuff like that at a pretty young age, and then I got interested in songwriting, and eventually I started teaching myself guitar…I wanted to learn every Jonas Brothers song. As I got older, I got more interested in learning compositional techniques and songwriting techniques and how to actually get my own skills to keep up with my musical tastes…that was the goal. And here we are! I was at a point for a while where I think a lot of my taste and influences were whole bands that were mixing rock sounds with, you know, maybe some New Wave or electronic or synth-pop based sounds, and I was still just playing acoustic guitar and singing, and I was like, okay, I need to take it to the next level.
It makes a lot of sense that you’re drawn to that kind of rock outfit, with the New Wave influences, because that’s how you’ve made a name for yourself…you’re having a lot of fun with synths especially. Is it fair to assume that your training and your formation as a musician was largely formal because of the environment you grew up in?
Yes and no…I don’t think I’ve ever been really good with a formal setting. Like, I was not a good practicer…I’m still not, I would say guitar is my main instrument, but I have not sat down for a formal practice session in years. I just write and try and teach myself other music…my mom is a music teacher, she’s a band director with kids just starting out…so she’s able to break down more complex musical terms, or stuff you hear in music that you don’t know what it is, don’t know how it works or what makes it cool, and she’s able to break that down and explain what it is and how it all comes together. So I feel like just growing up around that helped me have a sense of what makes the blueprint of different genres and stuff like that…how to hear music not only for its overall vibe and what makes a song make you feel a certain way, but what actually makes it sound like that.
Last time we talked a little bit about college and what that meant for you. Can you run me through those formative musical college years?
It’s interesting because I know a lot of people have gotten where they are and had formative musical experiences with absolutely no help from college, and there’s a lot of flaws in the education system. I definitely don’t feel like someone needs to go to college to get really good at what they want to do with music, but I’m really glad that I went, and I think there were a lot of things I was exposed to in some of the classes and one-on-one lessons I had that directly caused me to be able to make some of the things I’m able to make on my own. And I think if it weren’t for that, it would have taken me and still be taking me a longer time to be able to do the things I want to do. And I also just really love assignments! I found that was one of the most helpful ways for me to grow and work, is to just limit the creative scope, give myself a box to play around in, and figure out how to do it creatively. And that has really informed how I’ve gone about inspiring myself to make my own music and make content for TikTok videos. That was a really important takeaway from going to school for it, versus just learning on my own time.
Is that something you see a lot of other artists doing on TikTok, or do you think that’s something new you bring to the table?
I know there are definitely a number of other artists who will do a popular song in a different artist’s style…I don’t even know where I saw someone doing it first necessarily, I think I was just aware of multiple people doing it on TikTok, and I was like, “Oh, that’s a genre of TikTok I can make”. Although I will get the occasional accusational comment that I’m stealing this from somebody else, and I’m just following the trends, and if only I could do something original in music because I seem like I have the skills. And I’m like, “Did you look at anything else I posted?”...I did literally comment that to somebody. He was like, “Good job, but, like, I really wish that you…would not just follow the trends. It’s a shame. You seem like you really have musical talent”. And he said it like, it’s too bad you’re just doing trends instead of doing whatever else. And I was like, “It’s too bad you clearly just looked at this one video and scrolled past and assume you know everything about what I do and didn’t look at anything else on my profile”. And then he came back and he commented on another video and said, “Okay, so I went back and listened to your other music after you commented that, and I’m really glad I did because the stuff you do is really good”, and I was like, “I KNOW, Jeffrey. You were WRONG”.
Obviously, so much of your momentum has come from this vehicle for artists that is TikTok. How much of your presence on TikTok do you think is spent trying to prove people like “Jeffrey” wrong, and trying to prove that you do have your own sound and you do have your own force?
I’ve been thinking about this a lot just in terms of…the way we consume music, and how we’re all a little bit now reliant, even on a personal level…reliant on things like algorithms or a certain type of post, to do the work of getting to know somebody deeper. I think that’s just sort of the result of people being people, I think that’s just a technological version of basing your whole opinion of somebody on a first impression. Instead of only doing it to people we meet, now we can do it to strangers across the globe. And I think because of…the way that I am, and I’ve always been very annoyed by the concept of being misunderstood, or being perceived in the wrong way, or being put under a broad generalization, I am very affected by comments like that. I’m very annoyed, and I wish I wasn’t, but I really am, especially from men who are clearly just waiting for someone who’s not a man to do something that they deem as proof that women suck at music, or whatever. And I’m not going to be able to change the minds of everybody, but I do aim to try and have a mixture of different sides of what I want to do on TikTok - sometimes I think that is to my detriment, because I know the app does not reward inconsistency, but I’m really stressed about the concept of being perceived as only one kind of thing. Like, there are people who only know me for one kind of video, and have no idea that I produce my records and am a serious songwriter. But I also don’t only want to be known for the set of eight, nine songs on Pay Attention To Me, because I also put a lot of effort and love into the covers I’ve done, and the shorter funny songs, and that’s a side of me also. I’m a goofball, and that’s part of who I am.
Was your momentum with TikTok something you’d planned/hoped would happen, or is that something that just came about and you ended up running with?
I guess a little bit of both. I downloaded TikTok totally for entertainment and was not aiming to use it for music purposes - I didn’t know how to use it yet, and I got on there right when people were starting to do more music-based content, but at first, it was still a lot of trends and a little more dance-based, which was fun. But I didn’t yet have a sense of how I could do anything. And then at some point I started doing little impressions - I was like oh, I want to make a song, and film myself in the video making a song that’s an impression of bedroom pop. And eventually I did one that got over ten thousand views, and it was the first one where people were saying, “make a full version of this, please”, and then I was like, “Oh my God, I could do this intentionally! And like, do something where I can figure out exactly what people like and what they want”. And I can do something more interactive than just making music and playing local shows - which is fun, I still like doing those, but then I suddenly had a ton of ideas for videos I could do with a lower barrier to entry than Youtube, and I’ve just continued to do those. I think it’s only been within...the last year or two…that I’ve really tried to bring my original music into it as well and talk about more serious stuff that I’ve done…I put out Starter Pack in 2020 that was full versions of stuff people had asked for full versions of, but then Pay Attention to Me I feel like was my first solid album release…you haven’t heard any of these songs before, they’re all important to me, they’re not really gimmicky…please take me seriously as an artist.
Are you looking to move away from that kind of content entirely, or are you just playing with it and figuring it out right now?
I think I still have way too many ideas that I want to see come to life to move away from it entirely. If anything, I would love to recontextualize things a little bit and have that be a reason to get people interested in joining me on Patreon, and seeing more behind-the-scenes kind of stuff…same with the short, funny stuff that I’ve made that people want full versions of that…I’m not going to release on Spotify. Like, I am not going to release that on Spotify. Like the perfectionist song that was like thirteen seconds…I was like, this isn’t even a song! I totally don’t blame people for doing that, but I was so shocked. I like to use Patreon for that stuff a little longer…for stuff that isn’t completely conventional, serious, I’m an artist stuff. And I need money to live.
Do you have a good grasp of what your general ethos is as an artist, and the kind of message you want to be pushing through your longer-form works?
I think so! I think anytime this question has come up, I feel like I always gravitate toward, like…the two main things are one, have fun, two, be able to be versatile and not stick to one thing, be it one vibe, one singular ethos, or one genre. Cause I have a feeling throughout the whole rest of my musical career, I don’t think I’ll like, settle in one sound and only make things that feel like that. I think I’ll always want to explore different sounds and…try different paths.
Last time that we spoke, we talked a little bit about your influences…we talked a little bit about St. Vincent, and I really see you following in her footsteps there…can you talk a little bit more about other influences?
I wind up having different influences for different songs, and they come out in different ways. I think overall, in a broad sense, I really like the Strokes, I really like anything Julian Casablancas has done, I really like the Voids, they’re very experimental and wacky and high-energy. I have always really enjoyed St. Vincent’s stuff…when I first heard her self-titled album, it was right before college, and I was like, “Oh my God, you can make guitars sound like that?” and that was a new goal for me. And it wasn’t quite pop, but it wasn’t quite rock…I guess that was my first exposure to artrock or avant-pop as a concept, and I think anything that aims to experiment with traditional genres in a way that is still meant to let people in instead of gatekeep them, I really, really like. I got really into Caroline Polachek when her album came out, I love the production on that…I really like Everything, Everything…I like anything with a funky beat, honestly. Gorillaz, I love Gorillaz. There’s a lot of artists I don’t really remember and realize artists that influenced me, and then I remember I listened to them in high school. I forgot that was in my brain…honestly, COPS, who I went on tour with over the summer…they’re really good at pop music that has a fun edge and doesn’t sound exactly like something else.
Was that your first official tour moment?
I feel like it was. I went on two different weekend-long runs in 2019…it was sort of like a six-day long tour, I did Thursday-Friday-Saturday and came back and went to work, and then did Thursday-Friday-Saturday the next week. In my head, I’ll downplay it…but it was a really big deal to me, it was a lot of hard work…that was the first real thing that I did. But this was the longest, most legit tour I’ve done so far, and it was a lot of fun, it was a lot of hard work…and I wasn’t even the one managing the tour and booking anything! I just got in the van and went and did the shows and it was exhausting. Huge props to everyone else involved, it’s a lot of hard work….it was a really good show of how you need teamwork to make something happen. We’re not meant to do this stuff on our own.
How has it been for you transitioning from TikTok to getting this education on life on the road and what it means to give a live performance?
It was definitely interesting going from a live stage performance being my main way of introducing myself as an artist, and having that change to videos. And there are ways in which…there are sides of me that I’m very confident in that come out as a live performance, and then there are sides of me that I’m more confident in in a more constructed kind of way with videos, where I’m able to be a little more choreographed…or show a different side. I’ve tried to incorporate that into live shows…there was a little bit of overlap between TikTok stuff happening and live shows happening, and at some point I started trying to orient little songs into it. I really like that as a kind of online…piece of short-form content…little skits or music that shows a completely different side or a different energy. I would say it’s more akin to doing a sport, or a straight-up stage production, or performing dance…I work up a sweat filming videos, just because I’m back and forth, and I’m moving, and I’ve got lights on me, but…doing a performance is really like performing well on the field. The physical upkeep you have to provide your body when doing shows, a whole run of shows.
Let’s talk about your time at the Palace.
It’s a mixed bag with DIY, which can be really fun. I get very anxious about the unpredictability of shows, and once I settle into the sort of choreographed way of performing — even the choreography of going into the venue, figuring out where to put my stuff, talking to the sound people, plugging in my computer, plugging in my guitar — and I like those routines a lot. I feel like having that foundation down helps me get comfortable enough to provide my own unpredictability in terms of how I’m going to perform. I definitely felt that there was a fun punk energy in the night - people were down to get down to “Barbie Girl”! There was a moment where I was sweating off my makeup and my eyes were burning, and I pulled my sibling, Carrie, aside, and I was like, “Get me some paper towels, STAT”. And they run off, and grab some and give it to me, and when this drop comes in…I’m usually dancing around and shit, but I was wiping makeup off my face, like “YES, it’s punk, it’s grunge-y, it’s performance!”. And then we all jammed out to “Barbie Girl” and “Mr. Brightside” while Carrie played drums with a wooden spoon, and that’s the kind of stuff I love about venues like that. That’s definitely one of the most unforgettable shows I’ve played in the years I’ve been playing shows.
Do you usually find yourself performing in the DIY scene?
The tour I went on…we played a lot of venues that were a range of, like, really legit organized “Here is your green room!”...and much more strict. And then, like, the next day, we played a basement show…and things have different benefits for different reasons. From what I understand, I feel like there’s a certain level of touring where there’s a different scale of people coming in, of merch being moved, of different things being handled every day…there’s a certain level where it’s like, that’s NOT DIY. Below that? Maybe it’s a mixed bag! Sometimes you do shows where it’s like, “Oh my God, this venue is huge!”, and then there are ten people there. And sometimes, we’re playing in a house. And it’s going to be so packed people are going to be standing on the stairs.
We’re seeing this really interesting bleeding of genres, and it feels like there’s a new category you can identify every single day. Do you ascribe yourself to any specific genre, or do you feel the freedom to move around as much as you want?
Yes and no! There’s definitely a number of genres that I wouldn’t feel as comfortable…waltzing into, and saying, “I’m this kind of artist now”...I think there’s a lot of genres where the integrity is a really important part of it. I think you could say that for any genre, but I’m definitely thinking of something more broad, like indie pop has a lot of things that could fall underneath that. Versus, like, I couldn’t walk into a session or make a TikTok video and confidently be like, “I want to do hip hop now. I know what I’m doing.” I think there’s a lot of ways that those influences will mingle with other influences in my recordings, but they still fall under that amalgamation of indie rock or indie pop. I have reservations, too, about metal, and I really want to make something that’s heavier! That’s a little bit different too…the barrier to entry, so to speak, around many styles of metal, is based around technical ability, and I can’t do a metal solo. Like, I can’t shred. I can do a lot of chunky chords, and I think that would be really fun, but I would piss a lot of well-trained guitarists if I was like, “I can do metal now!”, but I would dabble in it. Two labels that I feel comfortable wearing around are alternative, as a whole, and experimental.